I have continued my D&D 2024 campaigns over the past few months. In general, the monsters and new character options work. However, I remain extremely frustrated with the state of the rules. Especially the rules for hiding.
The hiding rules are badly written. They make many assumptions about how they work, which aren’t always the assumptions players may have. And they also contain several shifts from how the rules worked in 2014, without clear explanations that these have happened.
As I’ve been running my games, I’ve occasionally seen other parts of the game that depend on the hiding rules and based on them, I have a theory as to what the rules intend.
The key ability that led me down this path is the changed text for the spell spike growth.
Spike growth is particularly interesting because it changes the way you can detect the spikes – they move from being just a Perception check to being a Search action. This is key – the 2014 wording allowed them to be found with passive Perception. The new wording makes it very clear you must actively say “I am searching” and take an action to have any chance of noticing them. This lines up with some of the vaguer wording in the Hide action.
My current working theory is that passive Perception is no longer used at all. Where it was once key to hiding, now, once you are hidden, you stay hidden until an opponent actively uses the Search action to find you, or you do something that stops you being hidden.
The second insight relates to the requirements to remain hidden. And this is one of the bigger assumptions in the 5E rules. The 2024 rules state what you need to become hidden. They are more unclear about on what you need to do to remain hidden.
I believe that the intention is that you must continue to fulfill the requirements that allowed you to hide in the first place.
This isn’t stated clearly anywhere in the 2014 or 2024 rules. It’s just an assumption of the designers.
So, taking this together, I’d reword the hiding rules as follows:
Hide [Action]
With the Hide action, you try to conceal yourself. To do so, you must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity (Stealth) check while you’re Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover. You may not hide if any enemy has line of sight to you that isn’t hindered by those states; if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it has a clear line of sight to you.
On a successful check, you have the Invisible condition. Make note of your check’s total, which is the DC for a creature to find you with a Wisdom (Perception) check.
The condition ends on you immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you with a Search action, you make an attack roll, you cast a spell with a Verbal component, or you no longer fulfil the requirements to take the Hide action.
Your DM may choose to extend the condition if they decide all enemies are distracted and are still unaware.
As a related note, I would also rework the Invisibility spell. The trouble with the spell is that it relies on the old version of the Invisible condition, which explicitly said you fade from sight and can no longer be seen except through magical means. The revision to the hiding rules – which co-opted the definition of the Invisible condition – means that text is now gone, so casting the spell doesn’t actually make you invisible. It just gives you the condition. (Someone hiding can still be potentially seen, so the spell doesn’t mean what you might assume).
The reworded spell (and this also goes for other abilities of the same sort)
Invisibility
A creature you touch becomes impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. The target has the Invisible condition until the spell ends. The spell ends early immediately after the target makes an attack roll, deals damage, or casts a spell.
The hiding rules still have a number of missing elements – for instance, if someone is hidden, do opponents know where it is on the battlefield? At present, that is entirely up to the DM.
I’m not entirely satisfied with my reworking of the rules, but I think they may better reflect the intention of the designers.
One variant you may make is to restore the use of passive Perception. In this case, the “Search action” can be either a passive or active use of Perception.
Anyway, that’s my current thinking on how hiding works in 2024. I hope you find this useful!
That’s an incredibly helpful clarification, and one I’m going to apply immediately. All skill use should be active, IMHO–i.e., when I want to do something that might fail, I roll a die–and this definitely fits in with that take. Thank you!
“The condition ends on you immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you with a Search action, you make an attack roll, you cast a spell with a Verbal component, or you no longer fulfill the conditions to take the Hide action.”
Immediately causes some issues here, though I admit it’s very hard to write a succinct rule on hiding.
Immediately with Search action. Check.
Immediately after making an attack roll. Check.
Immediately after casting a spell with Verbal component. Check.
The last part is intended to be an effective catch-all, but should it be immediate?
If someone moves from concealment and does nothing else? No problem.
But what if someone moves from concealment and attacks? Should they get advantage because they were hidden? I’d argue they should. Consider how many times in books, movies, TV shows, etc. someone does exactly that. Should they get advantage on all attacks? That’s trickier. I’d be inclined to say yes if it’s a single action and no for bonus actions, reactions, etc.
Similarly, if an action, e.g., casting a spell, causes the condition to end, I’d argue it should end after that action is completed.
Ah, the legacy of Jeremy Crawford. Creator and curator of easily the most vague and hole-filled rules in mainstream RPGs or modern D&D. Never before has one man received so much credit for achieving so little.
I agree with Sir Whiskers about the issue with immediacy. Perhaps that could be resolved by specifying that the Invisible condition ends “at the end of the current turn” (rather than “immediately”).